09:25 wlb: weston/main: Pekka Paalanen * 5 commits https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/compare/5dbf96fb6c3930cd1424d447860508bd4ae0139d...5516527f2b1199383ee414227977cd40c9679ce3
09:25 wlb: weston Merge request !1413 merged \o/ (Improve clipper tests https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/1413)
09:39 wlb: weston Issue #876 opened by Paul Pu (puhui) weston crashes in weston_desktop_xdg_toplevel_protocol_set_fullscreen() of xdg-shell.c if disconnect the screen just when calling set fullscreen https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/876
09:40 pq: drakulix[m], leaving emoticon reactions in Gitlab does not result in email notifications, and I definitely do not take them as reviews. Leave a proper comment if you want to accept/reject something, please. :-)
09:40 pq: or is there now an option to get email notifications of emoji as well?
09:41 pq: The problem with reviewing with emoji is that they can be withdrawn as well, and they do not insert into the stream to denote which revision was agreed to.
09:41 emersion: GitLab doesn't support RFC 9078 yet?
09:41 emersion: smh
09:44 pq: I also would never know if a :thumbup: is "LGTM" or "Sounds like a good idea if someone reviewed this" or "me too".
09:48 emersion: people should use 🦭 instead, which is much more explicit
09:48 pq: a square?
09:48 emersion: no, a seal of approval
09:48 pq: it's a square here.
09:48 bittin: a seal here
09:48 pq: this is also IRC :-P
09:48 emersion: IRC or not shouldn't matter
09:49 bittin: guess its more about installed fonts and terminal
09:49 bittin: and irc client
09:49 pq: Gitlab has the approve button already.
09:49 pq: Just say what you mean, and don't leave people guessing.
09:49 emersion: booooriiiing
09:49 pq: Boring is good, and I'm not joking.
09:50 pq: There is nothing funny for me here.
09:50 emersion: i non-ironically agree
09:51 pq: Personally I find "summary reactions" utterly useless. I use them when I feel like I should participate, but I also know it would be much better for everyone if I didn't. They give me the feeling of having reacted while being almost sure that no-one will see it.
09:52 emersion: i only use them when it doesn't matter whether the other person sees it or not
09:53 pq: yup
09:53 emersion: they're more of a social media app feature than a useful forge feature
09:53 pq: very
09:53 pq: The definition of "summary reaction" is a knee-jerk, right? When was leaving knee-jerk reactions a good idea.
09:54 pq: :oldmanyeallsatcloud:
10:03 davidre: When creating a protocl in wayland-protocols should the protocol folder and file name include a prefix?
10:04 emersion: if wp: no, rest: yes
10:04 davidre: For example we have stable/xdg-shell/xdg-shell.xml but also stable/viewporter/viewporter.xml
10:05 emersion: yeah, viewporter is wp_
10:05 davidre: Context: I find that in https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/228 dialog protocol is overlay generic
10:06 davidre: emersion: Thanks, gonna leave a comment
10:06 davidre: * a comment there then
10:11 pq: wayland-protocols README.md still talks about Makefile.am, and I don't think we ever had extension directory and file naming defined.
10:11 pq: the prefix, specifically
10:12 davidre: but at least <protocol name=" should include a prefix I guess
10:12 pq: I don't know. Would be good to define all that.
10:13 pq: I'm not even sure if anything uses that.
10:13 davidre: If it has <protocol name="mycoolprotocol"> which inclusion criteria apply?
10:13 pq: that's based on the interface names
10:13 emersion: i think governance says that the prefix is optional for wp_ but not rest
10:14 davidre: pq MAkes sense, until someone defines interfaces with two different prefixes in one protocl :D
10:15 pq: yeah, I'd hope review catches that
10:16 pq: I don't actually know what GOVERNANCE 2.1.2 is talking about. Directory names? XML file names? <protocol> name attribute?
10:17 pq: and it says prefix is optional. Nothing about which namespaces.
10:17 emersion: "Namespaces are implemented in practice by prefixing each interface name in a protocol definition (XML) with the namespace name, and an underscore (e.g. "xdg_wm_base")."
10:18 emersion: "Protocols in a namespace may optionally use the namespace followed by a dash in the name (e.g. "xdg-shell")."
10:18 pq: yeah, interface names. No mention of directory, file or <protocol> names.
10:19 emersion:shrugs
10:19 emersion: to me the second line is about the protocol name
10:19 emersion: not interfaces
10:19 pq: This could use improving.
10:19 pq: yes
10:20 pq: 2.1.1 is about interface names only. 2.1.2 is not about interface names but I don't know which names it is.
10:21 emersion: Protocols [...] may optionally use [...] in the name
10:21 pq: which name?
10:21 pq: directory, file, and/or <protocol> name?
10:21 emersion: it reads pretty naturally to me
10:21 davidre: Just make it all match
10:22 davidre: Less confusion
10:22 pq: file name is required to have the major version suffix, while directory name does not, and <protocol> name I don't know.
10:23 emersion: a single directory must be able to contain multiple major versions
10:23 pq: yes
10:24 pq: so that means directory name cannot be the same as the base name of the XML file.
10:25 emersion: file name is kebab-case, while protocol name is snake_case
10:25 emersion: apart from this they should match, i think
10:25 pq: what about the major version suffix?
10:25 emersion: what about it?
10:25 pq: should be there or not?
10:26 emersion: yes
10:26 pq: I don't think that's doc'd anywhere.
10:26 pq: I'd be happy to mandate namespace prefix in *all* names, going forward.
10:26 emersion: that'd be fine by me
10:27 pq: having been free game, I doubt we can find consistency in existing names, expecially the oldest ones
10:28 pq: but if there is recentish consistency, I'd be delighted
10:31 wlb: wayland-protocols Issue #175 opened by Michel Dänzer (daenzer) wp_presentation: Issues with definition of wp_presentation_feedback::presented timestamp semantics https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/175
10:36 wlb: weston Issue #873 closed \o/ (Touchscreen not rotating along with display. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/873)
11:47 pq: Is it clear to clients that an event group ending at wl_output.done does not necessarily send events for things that did not change since the last 'done'?
11:50 vyivel: pretty clear to me from the event description
11:50 pq: cool
12:15 pq: swick[m], there are a few MRs open against the color-management protocol, and the xx_color branch is already behind. It's a bit annoying to target an implementation to a version that's known outdated. Would you make a new version of xx_color as-is, or get the pending changes in soon, or?
12:16 pq: particularly as the implementation is already written for some of those changes, so we would actually have to go backwards to match the current xx_color version.
12:37 drakulix[m]: <pq> "drakulix, leaving emoticon..." <- Honestly I think I meant to comment, got distracted and just forgot it. Definitely agree.
12:39 pq: drakulix[m], alright, thanks :-)
12:47 swick[m]: pq: I'll take a look at the MRs today and ask everyone with an implementation if updating the xx branch is fine
12:49 pq: how would updating the xx branch not be fine? I assumed it will be a cheap snapshot of the color branch that you could do even every week if there are changes.
12:50 pq: implementors then choose which version they pick from the xx branch as they are clearly numbered
12:51 swick[m]: I have not looked at the changes yet but if they break compat then I want an ack from everyone that they can adjust their implementations soon
12:52 swick[m]: trying to have compatible compositors and clients is the point of the exercise, isn't it?
12:53 pq: not with time limitations, no
12:53 pq: IMO the point is to have clearly versioned snapshots that can be discovered at runtime
12:54 pq: everyone will naturally want to support the latest, but everyone also has their own schedules
12:55 swick[m]: mh, right, so just release xx_color_management_v2 and a new version whenever someone wants it
12:55 pq: yeah, that's what I thought
12:56 zamundaaa[m]: yeah
12:56 swick[m]: that would be fine with me
12:56 zamundaaa[m]: FWIW I can update my implementation easily, the v1 one isn't in any release yet
12:56 swick[m]: okay, let's do that then
12:57 pq: why would being in a release matter at all?
12:57 zamundaaa[m]: I mean updating it for Plasma 6.0, so that clients can work with the newer thing
12:57 zamundaaa[m]: For git master it doesn't matter ofc
12:58 pq: the point of the xx rename was to not guarantee any specific version compatibility
12:58 pq: releases should be completely irrelevant
12:59 pq: because we do not want anyone to start actually relying on any xx version, and if you start thinking about releases, I think it gives a wrong message
12:59 zamundaaa[m]: They are relevant in the sense that for me the biggest reason for the experimental tags is so that I can release a compositor that supports the protocol, for client developers to write an implementation against, with easy porting to the final thing
13:00 zamundaaa[m]: Otherwise client developers would have to compile some compositor branch, which isn't always trivial. At least in the case of KWin there's a whole bunch of dependencies behind it that may need compiling too.
13:01 wlb: weston Issue #876 closed \o/ (weston crashes in weston_desktop_xdg_toplevel_protocol_set_fullscreen() of xdg-shell.c if disconnect the screen just when calling set fullscreen https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/876)
13:01 pq: you can release, but you should not pay *any* mind to what you release - someone always need to build from a branch or snapshot, either a compositor or a client.
13:02 pq: otherwise we cannot make progress
13:02 zamundaaa[m]: What I meant is that it's good to have the more up to date protocol in the release / make a new snapshot now, rather than in a few weeks
13:03 pq: oh, yes
13:03 zamundaaa[m]: It's still all guarded behind an env var and disabled by default, so noone's actually gonna rely on it
13:04 daniels: pq: if I could 👍🏼🤝 your ‘I use summary reactions to leave an indicator that I have weak opinions that aren’t worth sending notifications’ message on IRC, I would :)
13:05 pq: daniels, triple square?
13:08 daniels: thumbs up with medium-light skin tone, handshake
13:08 daniels: I guess you’d have to have a client supporting Unicode before you got reactions though :P
13:09 pq: I do Unicode, just not all of it, and definitely not anything coloured.
13:10 emersion: the proper description is: THUMBS UP SIGN, EMOJI MODIFIER FITZPATRICK TYPE-3, HANDSHAKE
13:13 pq: even if the font had the glyphs, they would be too small for me to see, because my font size is good for reading regular text.
13:14 kennylevinsen: I find google's noto fonts to be a good way to have fallbacks for every codepoint
13:15 kennylevinsen: the glyphs are indeed small though, at the current font size and distance the handshakey thing looks more like a... yellow heart?
13:15 kennylevinsen: but better than a tofu or blank squares
13:16 davidre: pq you can use https://dri.freedesktop.org/~cbrill/dri-log/?channel=wayland&highlight_names=&date=2024-02-06 to look at-non squares
13:16 davidre: But there the glyph is even smaller than in my client
13:18 pq: Thanks, but no thanks. I'm opposed to modern hieroglyphs. They are like "HTML email failed, what do we do next".
13:20 bl4ckb0ne: 😡🖥
13:21 davidre:wonders now if weston supports "modern hieroglyphs" in window titles
13:21 pq: Weston supports them just fine.
13:21 pq: It doesn't draw window titles.
13:22 emersion: 𝒘𝒉𝒐 𝒏𝒆𝒆𝒅𝒔 <𝒃><𝒊> 𝒂𝒏𝒚𝒘𝒂𝒚𝒔...
13:23 davidre: well then the titlebar drawing code in weston for the terminal
13:23 pq: That I wouldn't know.
13:23 kennylevinsen: well, having to deal with CJK I can comfortably say that text has *always* been random hieroglyphs...
13:23 davidre: Seems it fails
13:24 kchibisov: kennylevinsen: big true.
13:24 kennylevinsen: it's sheer luck that we can do work with just an ASCII table at times :/
13:24 davidre: Actually the titlebar is correct
13:24 davidre: but the terminal seems to struggle
13:26 pq: CJK always had, that's the point; we latins didn't, it's like learning a new language
13:26 davidre:uploaded an image: (35KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/kde.org/a8732bba49580071dede5dcc1d6d79e09d7745ee1754859174023397376/Screenshot_2024-02-06_02%3A26%3A39.png >
13:32 kennylevinsen: pq: well, actually, the current shape of the latin alphabet is a very recent thing...
13:33 kennylevinsen: even lower-case letters is a pretty new thing, especially rules about their use
13:33 kennylevinsen: everything is a muddy mess
13:35 pq: in the history of electronic computing?
13:35 kennylevinsen: nah, computers are just a short-term fad in the scope of languages, but as they're here for longer they'll have to deal with how languages and writing systems are mutable and gross
13:36 davidre: These kids and there new-fangled U, all we had back in the day was V!