06:11 colinmarc: <JoshuaAshton> "Colin Marc: that's why the..." <- if you read the rest of the thread, I was trying to suggest introducing some soft backwards compatibility so that it's easier to iterate. for example adding an optional arg doesn't have to require a version bump, which would make it easier to propose and merge
08:37 ifreund: colinmarc: most wayland protocols use the design pattern of using multiple events/requests to define pending state followed by a commit event/request to make it current
08:37 ifreund: this is functionally equivalent to optional arguments, call it "optional events/requests" instead if you like
08:37 ifreund: my point is that the problem here is a social one, not a technical one
08:38 ifreund: and I for one do not see bypassing the standards body as a healthy solution for the ecosystem
08:39 MrCooper: amen
09:31 wlb: weston Issue #957 opened by () May I ask how to retrieve Weston cursor image data from dmabuf? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/957
09:57 colinmarc: <ifreund> "my point is that the problem..." <- yeah, that's obvious, I agree
12:11 yaslam: sup bros
15:18 vnd: linkmauve, if you still remember my question about slow video playback on a rotated display
15:19 vnd: in both cases (good and bad) entire display has a green tint
15:19 vnd: I've gathered debug logs as well, good case (no rotation):
15:19 vnd: https://gist.github.com/vnd/bc8f31f79021e7dbacbb57386bda9928
15:20 vnd: bad case (with rotation):
15:20 vnd: https://gist.github.com/vnd/dcd0ed5bdc5365eba01308f344d03151
15:20 vnd: but may be the most important finding is that upgrading BSP to latest fixes the issue
15:20 vnd: everything got updated, weston in particular from 8 to 10
15:21 vnd: but still it would be super useful to know which component is the culprint, since backporting the fix, or just upgrading one component is so much better given all the deadlines
15:22 vnd: so any hings are greatly appreciated
15:27 daniels: vnd: if I had to guess, I'd say that it was either weston gaining the ability to do per-plane rotation via KMS, or Mesa, or GStreamer
15:38 ManMower: wasn't there some well known green tint weston/gst interaction around that era due to missing modifiers, and the fix was just to have gstreamer bind a newer version of linux-dmabuf?
15:38 ManMower: (that era being... introducing weston 10 into your bsp)
16:21 wlb: wayland-protocols Issue #201 closed \o/ (xdg-toplevel-icon: buffer release semantics are undefined https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/201)
16:21 wlb: wayland-protocols/main: Simon Ser * xdg-toplevel-icon: clarify that wl_buffer.release is unused https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/commit/6f5772fd69c8 staging/xdg-toplevel-icon/xdg-toplevel-icon-v1.xml
16:21 wlb: wayland-protocols Merge request !330 merged \o/ (xdg-toplevel-icon: clarify that wl_buffer.release is unused https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/330)
16:25 wlb: wayland-protocols/main: Julian Orth * security-context-v1: clarify close_fd behavior https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/commit/f30b27a0ee9a staging/security-context/security-context-v1.xml
16:25 wlb: wayland-protocols Merge request !307 merged \o/ (security-context-v1: clarify close_fd behavior https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/307)
17:27 wlb: wayland-protocols Issue #214 opened by () text-input-v3: what is "instance"? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/214
18:02 throwthecheese: May I ask what version of XWayland was support for wl_touch added in?
18:33 bwidawsk: is the output emitted by `wp_presentation_feedback::sync_output` up to the compositor if the surface is displayed on multiple outputs?
18:34 YaLTeR[m]: yes
18:37 bwidawsk: so it can change every event then?
18:38 YaLTeR[m]: yes but i don't think anyone would do that
18:41 kennylevinsen: If the compositor fires on first present, it could change on every event if two overlapping outputs run at different refresh rates
18:41 kennylevinsen: It would be nicest for the compositor to stick to using its “preferred” output
18:44 zamundaaa[m]: bwidawsk: what do you want to use the sync output for?
18:45 bwidawsk: I'm not actually working on Wayland, however, I find Wayland to generally be a sane way of doing things and so I'm trying to model things similarly
18:47 Company: bwidawsk: generally the assumption is that surfaces are associated with 1 output I think and compositors translate whatever is different to the 2nd output
18:48 Company: see also: (fractional) scale or HDR
18:55 bwidawsk: I realize most of the use cases with presentation timestamps are for 1 output btw, it's mostly a curiosity
18:55 bwidawsk: I do imagine if you want to tile displays though, it could be problematic
18:55 bwidawsk: maybe the assumption is they're all vsync locked
19:55 kennylevinsen: Video walls would lead to a *lot* of frame callbacks in some compositors lol
20:19 wlb: wayland-protocols Merge request !339 opened by () add experimental protocols and their requirements https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/339 [governance]
20:28 bl4ckb0ne: thanks making the proposal zmike
20:29 zmike: sweatytowelguy
20:30 bl4ckb0ne: now let me bikeshed it /s
20:30 zmike: do your worst!
20:30 Company: I'll go first!
20:31 Company: was reading the removal thing, and wondering: Let's say Gnome develops an experimental thing, Mutter and GTK implement it, but nobody else thinks it's high priority
20:31 Company: so nobody else works on it
20:32 Company: does it get removed after 3 months even though there are happy users?
20:32 zmike: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/339#what-if-my-experimental-protocol-is-approaching-the-3-month-removal-period-but-i-am-missing-acks-due-to-reviewer-inactivity
20:32 Company: oh damn
20:32 zmike: are you even trying
20:32 Company: I read too quickly
20:33 Company: yeah, that works
20:34 Company: though it might be useful to have some place for corner-case protocols that nobody else wants to implement
20:34 Company: bit of a question if those should live elsewhere though
20:34 zmike: we'll put those on a case by casis
20:38 bl4ckb0ne: looks like somebody didnt signed off their commit :P
20:39 zmike: smh who would do such a thing
20:40 bl4ckb0ne: newbies smh
20:44 jadahl: Company: when (trying to, many stalled) to upstream some gtk-shell stuff, I always put my toe in the water first to see if there is interest, and I imagine the same could be done in the future would we need to
20:46 Company: it's some weird edge-case where you don't know if the wider world should be aware of it, even if it just has 2 users right now
20:47 d_ed[m]: jadahl: talking of which, is anything holding up the system bell?
20:47 d_ed[m]: You can ack from gnome at least
20:48 jadahl: people answering my questions mostly
20:48 jadahl: i'll go and self-ack it though, good point
20:48 d_ed[m]: There doesn't seem to be anything open
20:49 jadahl: oh, I missed replies? :o
20:49 jadahl: 2 unresolved threads..
20:49 jadahl: I guess it needs a formar review, too
20:50 jadahl: and a last ack
20:50 jadahl: I was going to nag drakulix[m] about that at some point
20:51 d_ed[m]: cool
20:52 jadahl: want to "rb" it? can't ask carlos atm
21:03 bl4ckb0ne: ill have a look to the system-bell tomorrow for the wlroots ack
21:03 bl4ckb0ne: nobody sent us an impl right?
21:04 vyivel: iirc nope but i can write one
21:05 bl4ckb0ne: sounds fun
21:06 jadahl: maybe wayfire can make a visual bell shader effect
21:08 Company: do we have a GTK patch?
21:08 kennylevinsen: exec mpv /usr/share/giant-gong.mp4
21:08 jadahl: Company: yes
21:08 jadahl: qt/gtk/mutter/kwin has mrs linked there
21:09 Company: ah, people are waiting for things to appear in wayland-protocols
21:09 jadahl: now its missing a third ack, and a rb
21:10 jadahl: but maybe bl4ckb0ne will make the acks complete
21:10 drakulix[m]: if nobody does that before tomorrow, I’ll look into it (and most likely ack)
21:10 jadahl: drakulix[m]: thanks!
21:11 Company: I wonder if GTK needs a way to handle protocols not existing in wayland-protocols
21:12 Company: then we could implement them while they're on branches
21:12 Company: and we'd survive releases after zmike deleted half the protocols from the experimental/ folder
21:13 Company: though I guess this doesn't avoid breakage because updates to experimental protocols can be breaking
21:13 jadahl: could if ...found() and meson_option('enable_..') in meson
21:14 Company: I don't like implementations living on branches because then nobody will test them
21:14 Company: but implementations not living on branches can cause compile-time breakage
21:15 Company: it's fine if we hide them behind env vars, so you need to pass GDK_DEBUG=experimental-wayland or so
21:16 Company: to avoid shipping with an implementation for an unfinished protocol and then breaking - that'd be bad
21:16 Company: but I'm thinking about having something in nightlies
21:16 Company: that people can test
21:16 Company: so you can implement it in Mutter + GTK and tell designers to run with whatever env vars to see if things beep right
21:17 Company: obviously that's more relevant for larger protocols, say color-management or input-method-v42
21:20 hch12907: if !339 gets merged, wouldn't wayland-protocols require a bot to make sure the removal of expired protocols is actually carried out
21:21 ManMower: I don't think we need nanosecond precision.
21:22 llyyr: and even if we did, it'd be trivial to have something that does...
21:22 ManMower: I think it's a "cross that bridge when we get to it" situation
21:23 ManMower: it would be nice if expiring protocols happened so rarely that it wasn't worth the effort to automate it.
21:25 hch12907: I could have sworn some protocol MRs were tagged "In 30 Day Discussion Period" even though the MR was definitively older than 30 days... but apparently that was cleaned up
21:26 hch12907: anyway, I thought of that, hence my original message
21:54 Company: congrats on reaching Phoronix everyone, I'm sure this will turn that MR into a fruitful discussion
21:55 psykose: i can already see the first phoronix commenter has jumped in
21:56 karolherbst: :')
21:56 Company: that comment is why I checked Phoronix
21:57 karolherbst: somebody might want to leave a "this is a community wide discussion, so please refrain from randomly jumping in" or something like that. Especially if the comments contains some unncessary opinions not helping with anything
21:59 jadahl: karolherbst: I copied that suggestion verbatim and replied
21:59 karolherbst: :D
22:02 karolherbst: I might have phrased it more diplomatic if I'd knew somebody is gonna to copy it, but fair enough
22:03 Company: You apparently also should have defined "community"
22:03 karolherbst: yeah....
22:03 Company: but as you're not "the only sane developer working on linux stuff" you might be excused
22:03 Company: (that was from Phoronix comments)
22:03 vyivel: not even "phoronix user spotted, opinion invalidated"
22:23 Ermine: birdie linking issue 233 - check
22:26 FreeFull: Phoronix comments are.. something
22:31 Arnavion: It's called Moronix for a reason
22:40 daniels: can we please try keep a higher signal:noise ratio here? thanks.
22:43 FreeFull: I'm wondering if I should try writing my own wayland compositor again
22:43 Ermine: you should